Comments on: Looking at the topic of healthcare. http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/ A deeper look into how Worthy Chat is run and the people who administer to Worthy Chat! Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:24:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Nobleman http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-54967 Nobleman Sat, 20 Mar 2010 00:15:49 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-54967 Here are some points to ponder-- Obama wants to require insurance companies to cover everyone, including those with pre-existing conditions-- that results in more expense, which will be passed on to the clientele-- higher insurance premiums, no savings. Obama wants to prevent insurance companies from applying a lifetime or annual maximum payout, resulting in greater expenses for the insurance company resulting in greater outlay to be passed on to the clientele-- no savings there. Obama wants to require insurance companies to continue coverage for youngsters into their twenties, carried on their parents' policies-- more expense, higher premiums-- no savings there. Unlike the UK, whose healthcare is paid for by a national tax, the Obama plan is destined for no good and all bad, ultimately bringing about the sure destruction of the American healthcare system as a whole, as well as the national economy, which is already in deep trouble. What intelligent American would vote for a deal like this? Here are some points to ponder– Obama wants to require insurance companies to cover everyone, including those with pre-existing conditions– that results in more expense, which will be passed on to the clientele– higher insurance premiums, no savings.

Obama wants to prevent insurance companies from applying a lifetime or annual maximum payout, resulting in greater expenses for the insurance company resulting in greater outlay to be passed on to the clientele– no savings there.

Obama wants to require insurance companies to continue coverage for youngsters into their twenties, carried on their parents’ policies– more expense, higher premiums– no savings there.

Unlike the UK, whose healthcare is paid for by a national tax, the Obama plan is destined for no good and all bad, ultimately bringing about the sure destruction of the American healthcare system as a whole, as well as the national economy, which is already in deep trouble.

What intelligent American would vote for a deal like this?

]]> By: Omegaman 2.0 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-51589 Omegaman 2.0 Sun, 24 Jan 2010 10:36:21 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-51589 We'll see, while most people think the healthcare system needs some tweaking, so far, they have resisted and not trusted the government with a single payer system. While it might be better if regular people put it together than if politicians who are beholden to special interests and who have an excellent plan for themselves did it, I cannot imagine how the people could come to consensus on what kind of system to have. What I find odd, is that this never ending debate, always seems as though we are to be given a choice between what we have now, and something similar to what Canada and the U.K. have, as if there where no othr possible choices. I am big on choices, I figure the more choices you have, the more able you will be to find an option that works for you. Single payer systems, by definition, illiminate choices, and you end up have to accept what they are giving. Choices provide competition, competition keeps prices down. The main way that single payer systems have kept prices down elsewhere, as far as I can determine, is to reduce services. Are Americans ready for that? When we start taking charge of our own lives, making responsible decisions, paying our own way directly (in most cases), we will stop runnin to the doctor over a runny nose, or worse, runing to the E.R. for a runny nose. These things, and extremely high malpractice awards, figure into the equation of health care costs. Come back in nine years and tell me "I told you so" about 50% uninsured. I doubt that will pan out, and if it does,it will likely be because we are paying so much in taxes for un-needed programs, and have hurt industry so bad that there are few jobs or low pay. Nothing is free, you get what you pay for, how much you get is directly tied to how much you are willing to pay. However, put the choice back into the hands of the consumer, let him decide who gets his business, and insurance, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals etc, will compete for business, and that will do the most to keep a good balance of high quaity and lower cost. That, is my opinion. We’ll see, while most people think the healthcare system needs some tweaking, so far, they have resisted and not trusted the government with a single payer system. While it might be better if regular people put it together than if politicians who are beholden to special interests and who have an excellent plan for themselves did it, I cannot imagine how the people could come to consensus on what kind of system to have.
What I find odd, is that this never ending debate, always seems as though we are to be given a choice between what we have now, and something similar to what Canada and the U.K. have, as if there where no othr possible choices. I am big on choices, I figure the more choices you have, the more able you will be to find an option that works for you.

Single payer systems, by definition, illiminate choices, and you end up have to accept what they are giving. Choices provide competition, competition keeps prices down. The main way that single payer systems have kept prices down elsewhere, as far as I can determine, is to reduce services. Are Americans ready for that?

When we start taking charge of our own lives, making responsible decisions, paying our own way directly (in most cases), we will stop runnin to the doctor over a runny nose, or worse, runing to the E.R. for a runny nose. These things, and extremely high malpractice awards, figure into the equation of health care costs.

Come back in nine years and tell me “I told you so” about 50% uninsured. I doubt that will pan out, and if it does,it will likely be because we are paying so much in taxes for un-needed programs, and have hurt industry so bad that there are few jobs or low pay.

Nothing is free, you get what you pay for, how much you get is directly tied to how much you are willing to pay. However, put the choice back into the hands of the consumer, let him decide who gets his business, and insurance, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals etc, will compete for business, and that will do the most to keep a good balance of high quaity and lower cost.

That, is my opinion.

]]> By: Theodore http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-51065 Theodore Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:08:44 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-51065 Now is the time to start thinking about what a USA single payer system will look like. It will be better if citizens and not special interests put it together. We will have one because the insurance system will not work much longer. Every year the number of people who lose health insurance is larger than the number of people who lost it the year before. When there are fewer people and companys paying for insurance the cost goes up for each person. As the cost goes up fewer people can pay for insurance so they drop out. The cost goes up and next year there will be fewer people paying for insurance. When you graph a system like this the slope starts out shallow and starts to get steeper until a point when it goes almost vertical. This sort of graph is used to predict many different things. When used for health insurance it shows that in about nine years half the people in the US will not have health insurance and the outcry for a single payer system will be too loud for even politicians to ignore. Now is the time to start thinking about what a USA single payer system will look like. It will be better if citizens and not special interests put it together. We will have one because the insurance system will not work much longer. Every year the number of people who lose health insurance is larger than the number of people who lost it the year before. When there are fewer people and companys paying for insurance the cost goes up for each person. As the cost goes up fewer people can pay for insurance so they drop out. The cost goes up and next year there will be fewer people paying for insurance. When you graph a system like this the slope starts out shallow and starts to get steeper until a point when it goes almost vertical. This sort of graph is used to predict many different things. When used for health insurance it shows that in about nine years half the people in the US will not have health insurance and the outcry for a single payer system will be too loud for even politicians to ignore.

]]> By: FresnoJoe http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-42603 FresnoJoe Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:41:33 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-42603 {{{... The best way to see that your fellow man is helped, is to create a society, that values others, and prospers enough to be able to help ...}}} Amen! >>>>>()<<<<< Health There Is Only One Way "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6:33 And It Starts With Jesus "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47 And Continues With Jesus "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love." John 15:9 And It Never Ends With Jesus And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb." "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:" "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads." Revelation 22:1-4 True Health And Wealth Is To Be Found Only In The Master Surgeon "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." Ezekiel 36:26 The Creator Of Everything And The Captain Of Our Hearts Our LORD And God, The LORD Jesus Christ "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;" "Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing." "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." "And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever." Revelation 5:11-14 Maranatha! {{{… The best way to see that your fellow man is helped, is to create a society, that values others, and prospers enough to be able to help …}}}

Amen!

>>>>>()<<<<<

Health

There Is Only One Way

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Matthew 6:33

And It Starts With Jesus

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 6:47

And Continues With Jesus

“As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.” John 15:9

And It Never Ends With Jesus

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.”
“In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:”
“And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.”
Revelation 22:1-4

True Health And Wealth Is To Be Found Only In The Master Surgeon

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.” Ezekiel 36:26

The Creator Of Everything And The Captain Of Our Hearts Our LORD And God, The LORD Jesus Christ

“And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;”
“Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.”
“And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.”
“And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.”
Revelation 5:11-14

Maranatha!

]]> By: Omegaman http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-42536 Omegaman Sat, 08 Aug 2009 08:42:46 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-42536 According to the British medical journal The Lancet, the U.S. has the highest cancer survival rate. About 63% of those diagnosed with cancer, survive at least 5 years in the U.S. It Great Britain, only about 50% survive that long. 72% of the Nobel Peace Prize for Medicine recipients are in the U.S. Half of the new medications worldwide, are pioneered in the U.S. Americans played a key role in 80 percent of the most important medical advances of the past 30 years. Advanced medical technology is far more available in the United States than in any other country. As I recall, the MRI was pioneered on the U.K., but Americans have better access to this technology. Presciption drugss are a similar story. For example: 44% of Amricans who could benefit from statins, lipid-lowering medication that reduces cholesterol and protects against heart disease, take the drug. That may not seem like a good rate, however, only 23% of Brits get them. I could go on, I am sure you get the point. For those interested to read about the UK health sytem for a UK perspective, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/" rel="nofollow">here is the health section of a uk online news service</a>. If you measure how good a healthcare system is, by whether you have to pay for it at the point of use, then I agree, the United Kindom has it better than the U.S. If you measure the success of a healthcare system, by the quality of care, the results for the patient, the the U.S. wins. Is this really about nationaliasm, or do we want to provide the best healthcare. I think compassion dictates that the U.S. avoid a national healthcare system, because the quality of care we receive would suffer, as it has in countries that have tried that experiment. I would think that it is in the best interest of the world, that the U.S. keeps it's greedy capitalist system, because it help the most people in the U.S. and abroad. For those of you in countries where you hear that our (U.S.) healthcare is not available to those who cannot pay, that is not quite accurate. Having been poor, I can attest to the fact that I could get healthcare. We have systems in place already, which aid the poor. While it is not the same level as the wealthy can afford, it is as good as many countries provide for most of their citizens under nationalized systems. I did not write that blog entry to encite the passion of those in other countries who are happy with what they have, I wrote it to urge Americans not to settle for inferior care, waiting lines, rationing and other unfortunate side effects of a tax based care system. There is nothing morally wrong or evil about nationalized healthcare, it just does not provide the highest level of care. Could our sytem be improved? Yes, there is room for lots of improvement, but putting the government in charge of things they have no expertise in, just seems like a foolish idea to me, sorry. The one thing that we often here in the U.S. is that in other countries, they get their healthcare for free. Some people in those countries, think of it as free, forgetting for the moment that they pay for it ahead of time in taxes, just like most in the U.S. pay for it ahead of time in insurance premiums. When people discuss necessities, the first things that come to mind, are food, shelter, and clothing. Healthcare is not on the list, maybe it should be. However, most people can survive longer without healthcare, than they can without food. So,if healthcare is some kind of right and a service that government should provide, why not nationalized groceries, where you can go shopping at the market and get you food for "free". Or housing, why not also add a "free" house from the government? Transportation . . . I would like a "free" government car. This list could be endless. Instead of creating a cradle to grave, womb to the tomb, nanny state to take care of us, why not have a smaller government that just gets out of our way, lets us earn a decent living instead of confiscating half our earnings, and let us take the savings and decide for ourselves what we need and want, and let us shop amoung competing providers who will raise quality and lower cost to win our purchases? Why not reduce the costs of litigation so that we do not have to have higher medical costs from that. Why not let us have medical savings accounts where we can put money away for medical emergencies etc. There are lots of things we could try, but lets not try something that others have already tried, that we would not settle for? The best way to see that your fellow man is helped, is to create a society, that values others, and prospers enough to be able to help. According to the British medical journal The Lancet, the U.S. has the highest cancer survival rate. About 63% of those diagnosed with cancer, survive at least 5 years in the U.S. It Great Britain, only about 50% survive that long.
72% of the Nobel Peace Prize for Medicine recipients are in the U.S.
Half of the new medications worldwide, are pioneered in the U.S.
Americans played a key role in 80 percent of the most important medical advances of the past 30 years.
Advanced medical technology is far more available in the United States than in any other country. As I recall, the MRI was pioneered on the U.K., but Americans have better access to this technology.
Presciption drugss are a similar story. For example: 44% of Amricans who could benefit from statins, lipid-lowering medication that reduces cholesterol and protects against heart disease, take the drug. That may not seem like a good rate, however, only 23% of Brits get them.

I could go on, I am sure you get the point. For those interested to read about the UK health sytem for a UK perspective, here is the health section of a uk online news service.

If you measure how good a healthcare system is, by whether you have to pay for it at the point of use, then I agree, the United Kindom has it better than the U.S. If you measure the success of a healthcare system, by the quality of care, the results for the patient, the the U.S. wins. Is this really about nationaliasm, or do we want to provide the best healthcare. I think compassion dictates that the U.S. avoid a national healthcare system, because the quality of care we receive would suffer, as it has in countries that have tried that experiment. I would think that it is in the best interest of the world, that the U.S. keeps it’s greedy capitalist system, because it help the most people in the U.S. and abroad.

For those of you in countries where you hear that our (U.S.) healthcare is not available to those who cannot pay, that is not quite accurate. Having been poor, I can attest to the fact that I could get healthcare. We have systems in place already, which aid the poor. While it is not the same level as the wealthy can afford, it is as good as many countries provide for most of their citizens under nationalized systems.

I did not write that blog entry to encite the passion of those in other countries who are happy with what they have, I wrote it to urge Americans not to settle for inferior care, waiting lines, rationing and other unfortunate side effects of a tax based care system.

There is nothing morally wrong or evil about nationalized healthcare, it just does not provide the highest level of care. Could our sytem be improved? Yes, there is room for lots of improvement, but putting the government in charge of things they have no expertise in, just seems like a foolish idea to me, sorry.

The one thing that we often here in the U.S. is that in other countries, they get their healthcare for free. Some people in those countries, think of it as free, forgetting for the moment that they pay for it ahead of time in taxes, just like most in the U.S. pay for it ahead of time in insurance premiums.

When people discuss necessities, the first things that come to mind, are food, shelter, and clothing. Healthcare is not on the list, maybe it should be. However, most people can survive longer without healthcare, than they can without food. So,if healthcare is some kind of right and a service that government should provide, why not nationalized groceries, where you can go shopping at the market and get you food for “free”. Or housing, why not also add a “free” house from the government? Transportation . . . I would like a “free” government car. This list could be endless.

Instead of creating a cradle to grave, womb to the tomb, nanny state to take care of us, why not have a smaller government that just gets out of our way, lets us earn a decent living instead of confiscating half our earnings, and let us take the savings and decide for ourselves what we need and want, and let us shop amoung competing providers who will raise quality and lower cost to win our purchases? Why not reduce the costs of litigation so that we do not have to have higher medical costs from that. Why not let us have medical savings accounts where we can put money away for medical emergencies etc. There are lots of things we could try, but lets not try something that others have already tried, that we would not settle for?

The best way to see that your fellow man is helped, is to create a society, that values others, and prospers enough to be able to help.

]]> By: UK Citizen http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-42357 UK Citizen Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:39:29 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-42357 When are the people of the USA going to WAKE UP and realise that as human beings we must care for our fellow man and not use sickness as a opportunity to make money....SHAME on the HMO's. This is sicker than the people there trying to help, imaging going to a sick person to help them and saying "only if you give me $100 first", that's twisted. In the UK we have had a NHS for nearly 60 years, yes, that's 60 years and I can tell you that it is the most fiercely protected government organisation in the country because it is sacred. In the UK the NHS try to save money all the time, trying to be as efficient as possible all because they want to provide the best service on the planet for its CITIZENS, for FREE at the point of delivery. This is achieved by paying a tax called national insurance, which not only pays for healthcare but pays for social care as well. Bingo you end up with a society that works together for the common good, this not socialist or communist, its called the right thing to do to ensure we all live in a society were the helpless and the strong get looked after equally, what's wrong with that? When I go the doctor I am not thinking about how I am going to pay for it, just how long it take before I get better, this is right. The myth of long waiting times is rubbish, the NHS in the UK has a charter to provide the best services possible too ALL regardless of social standing. I can phone my doctor and see them the same day and receive important treatment with days or sometime the same day, and for free. + Please someone try and tell that this is bad because I cant see it. The reason that patient come to the US for treatment is because it is normally for a type of treatment that is pioneering, but over time the NHS will adopt it if it has a high success rate. You lot forget that the pioneering work done on Heart transplants was done at Papworth hospital during the 70's, at that time it was not available in the USA, INTERESTING. So it can swing both ways, as long as the emphasis is to make the patient well and not the shareholders happy, right! The NHS is not perfect, statistically if you are looking after 60 million people sometimes things will go wrong and they do, but this can be said for all systems, public and private. I am sorry Omegaman, but you have been brainwashed by the private health companies who want things to stay the same so they can make millions of dollars by spreading scare stories. To get a balanced view you need to have experience the public side that works and I am afraid once you have you will never want a private system again. What ever happened to helping fellow man? If you ever god forbid found yourself in a position were you couldn't pay, then what? God Bless America, because sometimes what you need are more blessings. When are the people of the USA going to WAKE UP and realise that as human beings we must care for our fellow man and not use sickness as a opportunity to make money….SHAME on the HMO’s. This is sicker than the people there trying to help, imaging going to a sick person to help them and saying “only if you give me $100 first”, that’s twisted.
In the UK we have had a NHS for nearly 60 years, yes, that’s 60 years and I can tell you that it is the most fiercely protected government organisation in the country because it is sacred. In the UK the NHS try to save money all the time, trying to be as efficient as possible all because they want to provide the best service on the planet for its CITIZENS, for FREE at the point of delivery. This is achieved by paying a tax called national insurance, which not only pays for healthcare but pays for social care as well.
Bingo you end up with a society that works together for the common good, this not socialist or communist, its called the right thing to do to ensure we all live in a society were the helpless and the strong get looked after equally, what’s wrong with that?
When I go the doctor I am not thinking about how I am going to pay for it, just how long it take before I get better, this is right.
The myth of long waiting times is rubbish, the NHS in the UK has a charter to provide the best services possible too ALL regardless of social standing. I can phone my doctor and see them the same day and receive important treatment with days or sometime the same day, and for free. +
Please someone try and tell that this is bad because I cant see it.
The reason that patient come to the US for treatment is because it is normally for a type of treatment that is pioneering, but over time the NHS will adopt it if it has a high success rate. You lot forget that the pioneering work done on Heart transplants was done at Papworth hospital during the 70′s, at that time it was not available in the USA, INTERESTING. So it can swing both ways, as long as the emphasis is to make the patient well and not the shareholders happy, right!
The NHS is not perfect, statistically if you are looking after 60 million people sometimes things will go wrong and they do, but this can be said for all systems, public and private.
I am sorry Omegaman, but you have been brainwashed by the private health companies who want things to stay the same so they can make millions of dollars by spreading scare stories. To get a balanced view you need to have experience the public side that works and I am afraid once you have you will never want a private system again.
What ever happened to helping fellow man? If you ever god forbid found yourself in a position were you couldn’t pay, then what?
God Bless America, because sometimes what you need are more blessings.

]]> By: FresnoJoe http://www.worthychat.com/blog/looking-at-the-topic-of-healthcare/comment-page-1/#comment-42279 FresnoJoe Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:54:51 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=202#comment-42279 {{{... do you really want your healthcare controlled and decided by government bureaucrats ...}}} The Level Of Medical Care The VA Is Currently Funded For Is Far Less That Stellar Unless Perhaps You Consider The US Veteran An Enemy To Be Physically Punished For Their Service In The Armed Forces. And As I Hear It From My Buddies, It Is A Down Right Shameful (Especially For Kids!) Lack Of Federal Funding For The Indian Health Service Which Causes The Annual Deadly Negligent Of The Health Of The Poorest Of Our Indian Nations! So.... Tell Me Again, Based On Prior And Current Performance, Just How The Federal Government Is Going To Change It's Practice And Truly Care For Helpless Babies And Young Mothers And Their Frail Old Grandparents? >>>>>()<<<<>>>>()<<<<< Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING Love, Your Brother Joe "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13 {{{… do you really want your healthcare controlled and decided by government bureaucrats …}}}

The Level Of Medical Care The VA Is Currently Funded For Is Far Less That Stellar Unless Perhaps You Consider The US Veteran An Enemy To Be Physically Punished For Their Service In The Armed Forces.

And As I Hear It From My Buddies, It Is A Down Right Shameful (Especially For Kids!) Lack Of Federal Funding For The Indian Health Service Which Causes The Annual Deadly Negligent Of The Health Of The Poorest Of Our Indian Nations!

So…. Tell Me Again, Based On Prior And Current Performance, Just How The Federal Government Is Going To Change It’s Practice And Truly Care For Helpless Babies And Young Mothers And Their Frail Old Grandparents?

>>>>>()<<<<>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”
Romans 10:13

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