Comments on: Going to market? http://www.worthychat.com/blog/going-to-market/ A deeper look into how Worthy Chat is run and the people who administer to Worthy Chat! Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:24:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: FresnoJoe http://www.worthychat.com/blog/going-to-market/comment-page-1/#comment-32690 FresnoJoe Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:58:56 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=95#comment-32690 If It Ain't About The Lord Jesus The Christ "The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus." John 12:21 If It Don't Point To The WORD Of God "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:1-3 And If It Ain't From The Word "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me," Psalms 40:7 Than Pray And Rejoice "Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim. And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand. So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword." Exodus 17:8-13 For The Victory Belongs To The LORD "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8 Hallelujah! If It Ain’t About The Lord Jesus The Christ

“The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.” John 12:21

If It Don’t Point To The WORD Of God

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” John 1:1-3

And If It Ain’t From The Word

“Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,” Psalms 40:7

Than Pray And Rejoice

“Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim.
And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.
So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.
And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.
But Moses’ hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.
And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.” Exodus 17:8-13

For The Victory Belongs To The LORD

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:8

Hallelujah!

]]> By: Omegaman 2.0 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/going-to-market/comment-page-1/#comment-32326 Omegaman 2.0 Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:26:26 +0000 http://www.worthychat.com/blog/?p=95#comment-32326 I have though about this quite a bit over the years, and have mixed feelings about it. It goes beyond the gimickery that i have seen. I went to attend a service at a new church, one that had just begun, but with a pastor that was and old and dear friend, and very sound and convicting in his typical sermons. Leading up to that time in the service, was worship (music). Now the music was contemporary, and that is o.k., but they had a light show as though it was a rock concert. That struck me as a bit too much. In my mind, their job should be to lead worship, not perform for entertainment - I do not see how a light show can possibly increase the focus on God, seems to me to be a distraction. Another church near my home, is a Baptist Church. It had always said so outside anyway. One day, the old sign was gone, and a colorful new one was in it's place. It said Sunrise Christian Fellowship, or Sunrise Community Church - something to that effect. I do not know what motivated the change, but my suspicion is that they felt that Baptist was seen as traditional and stodgey, even dead, and not appealing at all to a younger crowd. Probably their membership was falling off, and they noticed that the average age of the congregation was growing older - a trend that eventually would lead to no congregation at all. Certainly, this was a marketing move. A number of things occure to me with respect to your blog. First off, you mentioned, as did I, a number of things designed to make coming to church more attractive to people. I think to compare this to the money changers in the Temple, is a bit of a stretch. They had turned the Temple into a market place, a swap meet, where things were bought and sold, and extortive practices were going on. Making a church more appealing, is not quite the same thing is it? The changes in the church were done by the church, in order to get more people in, and to keep the church alive, in order to be able to minister to more people over the long run, as opposed to allowing entrepreneurs to overrun the grounds, hawking merchandise and exchanging money for profit. I think to modern day equivalent of that, can be seen in some television evangelism programs, where for a "donation", you can receive a hankerchief that has be prayed over, so that you may receive a blessing or healing, or in the message that you need to give to the ministry, in order to recieve more back from God. The idea of making church more appealing, is an old tradition. Comfortable pews, impressive architecture, stained glass windows etc, are all intended to appeal to man, God is not impressed by such things, He dwells not in a building made by human hands. Many traditional churches have choirs. I see that as no different than the rock star show put on at my friends church. Choirs entertain people, even their manor of dress in some cases, suggests that they are somehow in a class, different from you. While it is likely (I hope) that they do not think so, I know that some people are turned off by that exclusive image. Many, would rather have a team or person that leads worship among the congregants, rather than entertain them with their musical prowess. Personally, I find worship more meaningful, when in a home fellowship, with a person who plays guitar and leads worship, when the singing and playing is not all that high quality, when you fell open to singing badly, your guard is down and you are can more freely sing to God instead of for each other. Your larger overall point, I think is right on the money. Is your church a house of prayer and worship? - that is a great question. Beyond that, is you church one that encourages and helps you to live Godly, help others in and outside of the body. Does you pastor preach a sermon that can inspire you to be closer to God, and yes, sometimes, inspire fear. God is not only a lover of your soul and provider of your needs, He is also the disciplinarian of His children, and the destroyer of the unrepentant. If all sides of God are not being presented, then you are getting an incomplete message. Pastors are human like everyone else, they have feelings and need encouragement. For any who read this, I say: "Do not be shy in telling your pastor when you find a sermon convicting, if all he hears are complaints about the harder messages, he might not give them. That, would be a disservice to God and man." I have though about this quite a bit over the years, and have mixed feelings about it. It goes beyond the gimickery that i have seen. I went to attend a service at a new church, one that had just begun, but with a pastor that was and old and dear friend, and very sound and convicting in his typical sermons. Leading up to that time in the service, was worship (music). Now the music was contemporary, and that is o.k., but they had a light show as though it was a rock concert. That struck me as a bit too much.
In my mind, their job should be to lead worship, not perform for entertainment – I do not see how a light show can possibly increase the focus on God, seems to me to be a distraction.
Another church near my home, is a Baptist Church. It had always said so outside anyway. One day, the old sign was gone, and a colorful new one was in it’s place. It said Sunrise Christian Fellowship, or Sunrise Community Church – something to that effect. I do not know what motivated the change, but my suspicion is that they felt that Baptist was seen as traditional and stodgey, even dead, and not appealing at all to a younger crowd. Probably their membership was falling off, and they noticed that the average age of the congregation was growing older – a trend that eventually would lead to no congregation at all. Certainly, this was a marketing move.
A number of things occure to me with respect to your blog. First off, you mentioned, as did I, a number of things designed to make coming to church more attractive to people. I think to compare this to the money changers in the Temple, is a bit of a stretch. They had turned the Temple into a market place, a swap meet, where things were bought and sold, and extortive practices were going on. Making a church more appealing, is not quite the same thing is it? The changes in the church were done by the church, in order to get more people in, and to keep the church alive, in order to be able to minister to more people over the long run, as opposed to allowing entrepreneurs to overrun the grounds, hawking merchandise and exchanging money for profit.
I think to modern day equivalent of that, can be seen in some television evangelism programs, where for a “donation”, you can receive a hankerchief that has be prayed over, so that you may receive a blessing or healing, or in the message that you need to give to the ministry, in order to recieve more back from God.
The idea of making church more appealing, is an old tradition. Comfortable pews, impressive architecture, stained glass windows etc, are all intended to appeal to man, God is not impressed by such things, He dwells not in a building made by human hands. Many traditional churches have choirs. I see that as no different than the rock star show put on at my friends church. Choirs entertain people, even their manor of dress in some cases, suggests that they are somehow in a class, different from you. While it is likely (I hope) that they do not think so, I know that some people are turned off by that exclusive image. Many, would rather have a team or person that leads worship among the congregants, rather than entertain them with their musical prowess. Personally, I find worship more meaningful, when in a home fellowship, with a person who plays guitar and leads worship, when the singing and playing is not all that high quality, when you fell open to singing badly, your guard is down and you are can more freely sing to God instead of for each other.

Your larger overall point, I think is right on the money. Is your church a house of prayer and worship? – that is a great question. Beyond that, is you church one that encourages and helps you to live Godly, help others in and outside of the body. Does you pastor preach a sermon that can inspire you to be closer to God, and yes, sometimes, inspire fear. God is not only a lover of your soul and provider of your needs, He is also the disciplinarian of His children, and the destroyer of the unrepentant. If all sides of God are not being presented, then you are getting an incomplete message.

Pastors are human like everyone else, they have feelings and need encouragement. For any who read this, I say: “Do not be shy in telling your pastor when you find a sermon convicting, if all he hears are complaints about the harder messages, he might not give them. That, would be a disservice to God and man.”

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